Comments on: "Sieg whaaat?"

"Sieg whaaat?"

goodnewsfortheinsane — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:15:46 -0800

Everybody knows that gangsta rap promotes sexism, homophobia... and fascism. Take Bushido, for instance - the Berlin rapper of Tunisian descent that all the neo-Nazis love. Confused? (nyt) Well, so are the Germans. And then we're not even talking about Fler, whose "This is black-red-gold, hard and proud!" nationalist lyrics never fail to piss off the German papers (in German), and who likes to pose in his videos with a nice symbolic eagle. (Then again, Helmut Kohl didn't mind.) Still, Fler's flag-waving, eagle-loving rhymes are no match for Bushido's "Salute, stand to attention, I am the leader like 'A'". The A stands for Adolf, you know.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:21:00 -0800

Heard an item on these guys on today's "The Music Biz" on the BBC World Service, and thought I'd make an FPP about it.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:22:34 -0800

Uh, upon review, the "Helmut Kohl didn't mind" link might resize your browser window. It does for me, FF/XP.

By: furtive

furtive — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:40:30 -0800

I miss the good old days when people would just rock the mike like Fidel Castro.

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:46:21 -0800

I've noticed that not enough people are making use of the pre-Godwinized tag these days.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:49:18 -0800

I've noticed that not enough people are making use of the pre-Godwinized tag these days. Yeah. You learn from some things.

By: Afroblanco

Afroblanco — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:53:00 -0800

This is, indeed, good news for the insane.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:03:24 -0800

Hey, that 'A' could stand for anyone. Given Germany's anti-Nazi party laws, I'm sure it probably stands for 'Augustus'. You know, the leader of the Romans. Or 'Alfred' the Great, King of England. Or even 'Arthur', leader of those round-table guys.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:04:52 -0800

No worse way to make a point than to open with...."Everybody knows..."

By: sien

sien — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:09:55 -0800

People find taboos and exploit them. The Germans and the Austrians have laws that create a taboo a so you get people who use the taboo. If Germany and Austria were to introduce free speech then these things would lose their taboo and a lot of their attraction. The Swastika would become just like the flag of the Confederacy. The Communist symbols and Communist rhetoric are merely regarded as symbols and rhetoric of a murderous, innefective regime as would the Nazi symbols if their taboo was taken away.

By: grafholic

grafholic — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:17:28 -0800

"bushido" eh. how strange.

By: I Love Tacos

I Love Tacos — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:51:24 -0800

No worse way to make a point than to open with...."Everybody knows..." You've provided plenty of counter-examples.

By: phrontist

phrontist — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:51:26 -0800

It always saddens me that Germany has those laws forbidding Nazi imagery and such, because the Nazi's lifted them and it only draws attention to them yada yada... But if they repealed them, you know they would catch all hell for it.

By: Mr Bluesky

Mr Bluesky — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:31:56 -0800

& who can forget that epitome of 3rd Reich love fest

By: schroedinger

schroedinger — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:56:10 -0800

H-I-T-L-E-R Ridin' 'round the streets in his fancy car . . . [mov]

By: kyleg

kyleg — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:17:34 -0800

One of the problems is that for much of Germany (especially the liberal parts) patriotism is equated with nationalism, which is then conflated with Nazism. The article on Fler also mentions a band called MIA, which has also attracted negative attention simply for invoking the colors of the flag. Unfortunately, National Socialism is a major part of German history, and it's hard for many Germans to move on from it or be able to forgive their country for harboring it. There is a tremendous amount of guilt that leads to this attempt at completely eliminating all Nazi imagery while still trying to acknowledge the shameful truths of that regime. Of course, misogynist lyrics mean pretty much the same thing in any culture.

By: suni

suni — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:04:09 -0800

lol, i'm ashamed that you noticed german tv rap :D

By: slater

slater — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:17:09 -0800

First, they came for the posing, ignorant tunisian immigrant wannabe-rap-superstars, and I did nothing...

By: suni

suni — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:40:10 -0800

oh, and the german eagle is not a nazi sign

By: suni

suni — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:55:38 -0800

and die ärzte (mentioned in the 3rd link) are not rap music the actual story of tv rap uniting white trash and immigrant kids is really interesting and probably unique, but these articles are crap

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:21:27 -0800

If you have a taboo, artists are going to exploit it to be "bad boys" and get attention and money, including rappers and rockers who are just aiming for the attention of young males of all colors who love nothing more than pissing off their parents (Sex Pistols anyone?). The New York Times covered Rammstein last year:

The members of Rammstein report themselves puzzled - and wounded - by the controversy over their music. So, too, with the uproar over their use of a clip from "Olympische Spiele" - a Leni Riefenstahl documentary commissioned by the Nazis in 1936 as "a song of praise to the ideals of National Socialism" - in one of their videos. They had, they said, used it only because it was so pretty. . . . Most compelling is its lead singer. Dressed in an imperial German military uniform, Mr. Lindemann gave off an air of such brute masculinity and barely contained violence that it seemed that he could have reached into the crowd, snatched up a fan, and bitten off his head. He commands a low, powerful bass rarely used in contemporary pop music, untrained but electrifying. The audience members, enthralled, began pumping their fists in the air. The band then introduced one of its most notorious songs, "Links," with the sound of metrically precise, marching jackboots. Links means left, and the band claims this song is an expression of its left-wing sensibilities. The jackboots were followed by a furious chorus: "Links-Zwo-Drei-Vier! Links-Zwo-Drei-Vier!" ("Left-Two-Three-Four! Left-Two-Three-Four!") The German language lent itself to the powerful, rhythmic song. The keyboardist stomped about in a German military helmet. Mr. Lindemann performed an exaggerated goose step. The crowd shouted "Hi!" in unison, which sounded just different enough from "Heil" that the resemblance could be denied.

By: funambulist

funambulist — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:26:49 -0800

If Germany and Austria were to introduce free speech then these things would lose their taboo and a lot of their attraction. I don't know if we can so be sure about that, but in any case I don't think we can compare different approaches as if they could work the same everywhere, without considering the different histories of those countries. And if there comes a time to rethink those laws in Germany and Austria, it'll still have to be based on that context, not what is done in other countries which didn't have the same history.

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:46:01 -0800

Sounds like a-la eminem white guy with time limited, DRM protected, money grabbing assholines with an affliction-look on his face to attract protective females ( defiant rebel even more cursed then twice Baudelaire squared xcept she doesn't know who Baudelaire was, Paris Hilton boyfriend ??? ) masculine enough not to look like a sissy yet not aggressive..he'll be an hit with closeted male homosexuals I guess ? I can't find a translation from german of the abovesaid scandalous lyrics, some GermanMetaFite (gruss gott !) could help us ? Also I guess it's the usual controversial scandal machine going on...we're not bad, the gubment is evil, it's not like we're using nazist based suggestive lyrics to earn ourselves a decent living of some million dollah..mom needs medicine and a BMW.

By: mumble

mumble — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:40:54 -0800

I'm not saying that violence is in ANY way related to hateful rap music, but I do think that legalizing Nazi symbols (and yes, I'm very much aware that the swastika is actually not a Nazi symbol) as suggested in some comments here, would send the entirely wrong message to people, like, say, the five boys who brutally beat up a 12-year-old kid of Ethiopian origin in a nearby village the other day. This taboo exists for a reason. Also, from skimming the German interview linked to in the FPP, it seems that hints of fascism aren't the only gripe people have with Bushido's lyrics. He also wrote a song about a gang rape which seems to appeal to teenaged boys. One of the interviewees said that "many girls" claim they're now exclusively referred to as 'cunts' by, say, their male classmates. His co-author (of a book about German hip-hop) also said that young people don't think in categories of "left" and "right" anymore. If they want to listen to aggressive rap music, they'll listen to aggressive rap music, even if it comes from one of the brown people they'd at least verbally attack if they saw one in their neighborhood. Interesting.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:56:01 -0800

No worse way to make a point than to open with...."Everybody knows..." Everybody knows that an ironic use of ad populum will confuse the hell out of ParisParamus.

By: fire&wings

fire&wings — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 04:29:53 -0800

Bushido gets wide airplay on MTV and VIVA in Germany. I know this because I had to endure it, and it wasn't pleasant. Although I had no idea of the content. Get those pesky neo nazi aggressive roaring German rapper kids off my lawn...

By: Artifice_Eternity

Artifice_Eternity — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:00:32 -0800

and yes, I'm very much aware that the swastika is actually not a Nazi symbol Um, it's not? It may not have been a Nazi symbol before the NSDAP started using it. Now it is. Just like the burning cross originally goes back to Scotland but has now been co-opted by the KKK, the swastika is inseparable from Nazi associations.

By: cherrymocha

cherrymocha — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:21:39 -0800

Uh, the swastika's still used around the world, especially in parts of Asia, for purposes that have nothing to do with Nazis. It's a powerful religious symbol still, despite its taboo in Western countries.

By: 3.2.3

3.2.3 — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:09:01 -0800

The Swastika would become just like the flag of the Confederacy. what, you mean just moved from the capitol dome to the front lawn?